[Solar-talk] Framework Benchmarks

[Raymond Kolbe]

Clay...you did a much better job at explaining it than I did ;-)

On 10/3/07, Raymond Kolbe <rkolbe at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> My quick and easy (general) response to this would be...pay for the
> hardware. It is much easier to purchase hardware and upgrade/install servers
> than to hire a new programmer who has to spend a week or two reading through
> a company's in-house program and trying to figure out its structure...given
> that it does not incorporate MVC, etc., and then trying to extend that
> in-house code which may end up costing you in the long run.
>
> The hardest part for a programmer when changing frameworks is figuring out
> that particular framework implementation...Zend vs. Solar vs. Cake vs. Code
> Igniter vs. the next best thing. The easy part is knowing the patterns
> used...MVC for example (most/all php frameworks (glue or stack) revolve
> around this pattern).
>
> Does anybody actually look at that kind of information(this application
> > cost us $100,000 to write but we've spent 2 million on server costs over the
> > last 3 years.. etc..)
>
>
> Isn't this what project managers get paid to figure out? Really
> though...if you are going to go with a real project for a company, and it is
> a well thought out application, a framework may not be needed. However, you
> are never 100% sure that someone from up above will ask you to add
> functionality to your app. or have another department start on a project
> that incorporates you app. This is where logically structured code becomes
> your friend over the performance issues....just upgrade your hardware &
> leave that to the net admins (ahem...me) to figure out...heh.
>
> --Raymond K.
>
>
> On 10/3/07, Kilbride, James P. <James.Kilbride at gd-ais.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Btw, Paul, my brain pulled a distraction on me while writing that and I
> > forgot to finish the full conceptual thought in there.
> >
> > Basically it is, has anybody started looking at, from an economics
> > viewpoint, at which point in scaling an application up does hardware
> > costs/maintenance costs become more expensive than the developer costs?
> Is
> > it possible for that to occur? Is it possible that sometimes we gain
> > productivity on the front end and pay for it on the back end?
> >
> > Does anybody actually look at that kind of information(this application
> cost
> > us $100,000 to write but we've spent 2 million on server costs over the
> last
> > 3 years.. etc..)
> >
> > I wonder if there is even any concern that could be a problem? Could we
> > quantify the 'cost per request' in some way? given a specific page load
> or
> > such? "It costs us .0005 cents to show the customer the product"
> >
> > I liked your supply demand curves btw in the atlanta talk. And I've
> started
> > bouncing back through some of the rest of the topics/posts. Very good
> work
> > on that and it's amazing to me how easily people ignore the underlying
> > 'truth' of the statements and ignore that you start with a simple case
> > before arguing a complex case. And yet all of them want to somehow jump
> > straight into the complex case right away.. It makes no sense to me.
> >
> > Of course, listening to people rant and rave over the last decade about
> > Intel/AMD, NVidia/Whoever the ohter one is.. and so one with benchmark
> after
> > benchmark and how this benchmark shows the clear winner..
> >
> > sigh, maybe it comes of having taught college courses in computer
> > architectures and showing how you can specialize things and how
> benchmarks
> > only tell a small part of the story(important but must be taken in
> context)
> > that it drives me nuts when people do nothing but ignore the forest for
> the
> > tree that is falling on top of them while they argue about whether it's
> > falling or simply swaying in the wind.
> >
> > Now, off to test, 'ease of use' and 'responsiveness' of solar by trying
> to
> > get it up and running with zend core.
> >
> > James Kilbride
> >
> >  ________________________________
> >  From: solar-talk-bounces at lists.solarphp.com
> > [mailto:solar-talk-bounces at lists.solarphp.com ] On Behalf Of
> > Kilbride, James P.
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2007 8:12 AM
> > To: solar-talk at lists.solarphp.com
> > Subject: [Solar-talk] Framework Benchmarks
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Am I reading the benchmarks correctly Paul on your atlanta talk. At
> > best(solar) a framework comes out to only be about 12% as efficient as
> > writing the PHP code myself and doing some simplistic seperation of
> business
> > logic and layout?
> >
> > Ouch.. And some of those are on the 6% order. That's some serious
> > degredation of performance. Not saying I won't use them, since you get
> some
> > good productivity gains but numbers like that do hurt the cause a bit.
> If
> > I've got to spend 8-20 times as much on hardware to have the same
> > performance programmer productivity may become cheaper than hardware.
> >
> > James Kilbride
> > _______________________________________________
> > Solar-talk mailing list
> > Solar-talk at lists.solarphp.com
> > http://mailman-mail3.webfaction.com/listinfo/solar-talk
> >
> >
>
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