[Solar-talk] Framework Benchmarks

[Raymond Kolbe]

My quick and easy (general) response to this would be...pay for the
hardware. It is much easier to purchase hardware and upgrade/install servers
than to hire a new programmer who has to spend a week or two reading through
a company's in-house program and trying to figure out its structure...given
that it does not incorporate MVC, etc., and then trying to extend that
in-house code which may end up costing you in the long run.

The hardest part for a programmer when changing frameworks is figuring out
that particular framework implementation...Zend vs. Solar vs. Cake vs. Code
Igniter vs. the next best thing. The easy part is knowing the patterns
used...MVC for example (most/all php frameworks (glue or stack) revolve
around this pattern).

Does anybody actually look at that kind of information(this application cost
> us $100,000 to write but we've spent 2 million on server costs over the last
> 3 years.. etc..)


Isn't this what project managers get paid to figure out? Really though...if
you are going to go with a real project for a company, and it is a well
thought out application, a framework may not be needed. However, you are
never 100% sure that someone from up above will ask you to add functionality
to your app. or have another department start on a project that incorporates
you app. This is where logically structured code becomes your friend over
the performance issues....just upgrade your hardware & leave that to the net
admins (ahem...me) to figure out...heh.

--Raymond K.


On 10/3/07, Kilbride, James P. <James.Kilbride at gd-ais.com> wrote:
>
>
> Btw, Paul, my brain pulled a distraction on me while writing that and I
> forgot to finish the full conceptual thought in there.
>
> Basically it is, has anybody started looking at, from an economics
> viewpoint, at which point in scaling an application up does hardware
> costs/maintenance costs become more expensive than the developer costs? Is
> it possible for that to occur? Is it possible that sometimes we gain
> productivity on the front end and pay for it on the back end?
>
> Does anybody actually look at that kind of information(this application
cost
> us $100,000 to write but we've spent 2 million on server costs over the
last
> 3 years.. etc..)
>
> I wonder if there is even any concern that could be a problem? Could we
> quantify the 'cost per request' in some way? given a specific page load or
> such? "It costs us .0005 cents to show the customer the product"
>
> I liked your supply demand curves btw in the atlanta talk. And I've
started
> bouncing back through some of the rest of the topics/posts. Very good work
> on that and it's amazing to me how easily people ignore the underlying
> 'truth' of the statements and ignore that you start with a simple case
> before arguing a complex case. And yet all of them want to somehow jump
> straight into the complex case right away.. It makes no sense to me.
>
> Of course, listening to people rant and rave over the last decade about
> Intel/AMD, NVidia/Whoever the ohter one is.. and so one with benchmark
after
> benchmark and how this benchmark shows the clear winner..
>
> sigh, maybe it comes of having taught college courses in computer
> architectures and showing how you can specialize things and how benchmarks
> only tell a small part of the story(important but must be taken in
context)
> that it drives me nuts when people do nothing but ignore the forest for
the
> tree that is falling on top of them while they argue about whether it's
> falling or simply swaying in the wind.
>
> Now, off to test, 'ease of use' and 'responsiveness' of solar by trying to
> get it up and running with zend core.
>
> James Kilbride
>
>  ________________________________
>  From: solar-talk-bounces at lists.solarphp.com
> [mailto:solar-talk-bounces at lists.solarphp.com] On Behalf Of
> Kilbride, James P.
> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2007 8:12 AM
> To: solar-talk at lists.solarphp.com
> Subject: [Solar-talk] Framework Benchmarks
>
>
>
>
> Am I reading the benchmarks correctly Paul on your atlanta talk. At
> best(solar) a framework comes out to only be about 12% as efficient as
> writing the PHP code myself and doing some simplistic seperation of
business
> logic and layout?
>
> Ouch.. And some of those are on the 6% order. That's some serious
> degredation of performance. Not saying I won't use them, since you get
some
> good productivity gains but numbers like that do hurt the cause a bit. If
> I've got to spend 8-20 times as much on hardware to have the same
> performance programmer productivity may become cheaper than hardware.
>
> James Kilbride
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