[Solar-talk] layout generator

[Clay Loveless]

On Aug 2, 2006, at 6:12 PM, Rodrigo Moraes wrote:

> I would like to compare YUI Grids and The One True Layout to put some
> concepts on the table. What is nice about YUI Grids (and what made CSS
> purists angry) is its nature to be used in generated layouts. You have
> one CSS file for the structure, and your engine takes care to build
> divs to be used in that scheme.
[...]

Actually, I think what's made CSS purists angry is the non-semantic  
class names, and the requirement of so much markup in the HTML itself  
(nested divs) to achieve the look you want.

I've been reading more "published opinion" on YUI CSS today, and the  
most eloquent argument against it that I've seen is here:

http://www.elliotswan.com/2006/05/10/yui-grids-css-framework- 
considered-harmful/

A post describing some of the things I like about YUI Grids is here:

http://justinfrench.com/index.php?id=152

Justin names the use of standardized class names, and some default,  
prepared layouts as benefits.

I've emailed Alex Robinson to see if he'd be interested in  
participating in some kind of packaged distribution of the One True  
Layout approach ... some kind of distribution that would appeal more  
to the "I want to know what version I'm using" crowd. I'll keep the  
list posted on what he says.

> Yes, it is an ongoing debate, but I don't think YUI Grids have closed
> it, not at this stage.

Yep, I agree.

> I'm *really* curious about your discoveries.

You know, in going back through what I did, I don't know how to  
really describe my discoveries. It's not as though I unlocked some  
mystery (I don't think, anyway) ... I just threw in enough of my own  
div IDs, nested divs, and overriding CSS rules to get it to look like  
I wanted it to.

You are correct that both approaches use some really sophisticated/ 
complicated CSS markup, and that was the part I found the most  
challenging. I wound up going back to my "CSS Definitive Guide" book  
to refresh my knowledge of CSS selectors, and that really made a  
difference.

I banged my head on it for several hours, re-read about CSS  
selectors, and things finally started clicking. By the end of it, I  
had a layout that looked pretty good. (I can't post it,  
unfortunately, as it's a pre-release thing and all that ... but Paul  
saw it, since he and I work for the same company. I think he found it  
hard to believe that YUI Grids was under the hood.)

>> One True Layout, on the other, is the brilliant work of one guy (with
>> some input from others), and in the midst of all of it there's not a
>> concise step-by-step guide along the lines of:
>
> You have a point.

Upon re-reading my statement here ... it's kind of contradictory,  
since Solar itself is the brilliant work of one guy (with some input  
from others). So, that's not really a legitimate strike against OTL. ;)

> And why YUI Grids haven't made a point
> with me? Well:
>
> - I can't make 100% width layouts *and* choose columns widths.

Yeah, you certainly wouldn't be able to do that without an override  
CSS file. Even then, I'd have to play around to see how that would go  
exactly.

> - Grids margins (I said sooner paddings; I meant margins) are not
> under control and I don't know how to deal with this.

The only way I was able to easily deal with content margins within  
the grids were nested divs. Not sure if that would solve the issue  
you had with them?

> There is no step-by-step. I think it only intended to explain the
> techniques it uses, not to give a cookbook. It's understandable, given
> the audience of the site where it was published.

As I mentioned above, I've contacted Alex about possibly creating (or  
helping me create) a step-by-step, YUI-style distribution for the  
concepts he described. It'll be interesting to see what he says, and  
I think it might be wise to reserve judgement about a Solar standard  
approach until we hear back from him, or until we determine that we  
won't hear back from him.

Paul ... you've been quiet in this discussion. :) Any thoughts at  
this point from you?

-Clay

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